Maggie Demonstrates Republican "Debate" Techniques

Submitted by Hermit Barber on Fri, 2010-07-09 00:32

Primarily Maggie and Hermit. I have eliminated most interjections by others, some mentions of us by others, and inserted links to the points I raised. I have also made a few minor corrections to typing mistakes in my text. The full unedited log follows for context.

[2010-07-08 18:34:16] Hermit Barber: [16:53:42] Hermit Barber: Oh my god. Pee first. Then watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=player_embedded < I recommend something I found amusing

[2010-07-08 18:37:42] Maggie Darwin: Where ya been, Hermit, that's been out for ages. Theer's an iPhone version too. < Maggie starts in

[2010-07-08 18:38:25] Hermit Barber: Now if he got a nickel for all the laughs he gave/He'd be set for a fair living until he's in the grave. < I mention Google 3 times here - and at [2010-07-08 19:29:25] Maggie somehow concludes, presumably from this that "No wonder she hates Google.", a company I rather admire. Logic. One has to admire it.

[2010-07-08 18:38:52] Hermit Barber: Maggie, I only saw it today :-( < I respond to her with a laugh.

[2010-07-08 18:39:06] Hermit Barber is behind the times in the midworst. < And self depreciation

[2010-07-08 18:40:15] Hermit Barber: You mean Google nickle and dimes people? I thought they were not evil :-O < Intended as sarcasm. I know it doesn't carry well so I added the open mouth smiley to emphasize it.

[2010-07-08 18:41:24] Hermit Barber: :-) < And added another smile for good measure. How low of an empathic quotient do you need to figure this out? More than Maggie possesses it seems.

[2010-07-08 18:45:51] Maggie Darwin: Don't worry, Hermit. Obama will soon bring teh intarwebs to anyplace there may be Democratic votes. < Not satisfied, Maggie has to introduce her special brand of mindless politicking.

[2010-07-08 18:46:11] Maggie Darwin: Guadalajara is next, I hear. < Again

[2010-07-08 18:47:45] Maggie Darwin: Latif, he makes it so easy. Much harder to Bushbash, and yet the libs do it all the time. It's a highly developed tech. < Again

[2010-07-08 18:48:29] Maggie Darwin: Of course, the've been doing it for almost a decade now. < And Again

[2010-07-08 18:49:40] Maggie Darwin: Here: Now you can't say you never saw anything good on Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2010/06/10/vintage-ads-th...

[2010-07-08 18:51:33] Maggie Darwin: But you do need a spellchecker < Spelling Nazi? Republican rule: If you can't attack the argument or the person, attack the presentation.

[2010-07-08 18:52:33] Maggie Darwin: Maybe. Prok blocked me long ago.

[2010-07-08 18:53:28] Maggie Darwin: According to her, since I can code I must be a bolshevik. Quite a red herring from Ms. "Civil Society"

[2010-07-08 18:53:29] Hermit Barber: Maggie: Why do you persist in babbling about your delusions? Bush demolished what was the USA, and Obama is picking over the bones, but both responded to the 0.1% of Americans who run this fuck-up. Any differences you think you perceive between the actors are only for entertainment value. And given that over 90% of all American media is now owned by just 5 companies, which donate - like the banks, oil and insurance industry- evenly to both sets of actors, no conspiracy theory is required for anyone capable of reason to comprehend this. Which is why you seem to be making a statement about your lack of rationality rather than commenting on society, and that gets real boring, real fast. < So, 6 minutes later, I finally reply with the argument that both sides are evil with supportable assertions

[2010-07-08 18:53:46] Maggie Darwin: tl;dr < Explained to me as "Too long; didn't read." In other words, not prepared to examine any argument unless reduced to a soundbite.

[2010-07-08 18:54:38] Maggie Darwin: Good thing it's not left to chance. < I have no idea to what this is related. Perhaps Maggie thought it was meaningful.

[2010-07-08 18:56:16] Maggie Darwin: Morgaine is living in the past. Nice to retire while such things are still possible. < ad Hominem Morgaine

[2010-07-08 18:56:47] Tammy Nowotny: Maggie, Bush was a BAD President

[2010-07-08 18:57:12] Maggie Darwin: YTammy: Not at all unusual for liberals to be mystified by politics. Even when they win. < Ad hominem "liberals"

[2010-07-08 18:59:03] Maggie Darwin: An astoundingley small fraction of the poulation beleive their own opinions are wrong. < Probably intended as a general comment on the competence of those disagreeing. Notice her spelling errors - having just attacked somebody else for their spelling.

[2010-07-08 18:59:55] Hermit Barber: Tammy: Bush was so not a "BAD" president. He was a totally catastrophic president who succeeded in unrolling 150 years progress from tooth and claw to law, increased international tensions and aggressions by at least an order of magnitude and so made the world a much more dangerous place just as resource constraints and climate change began to raise stresses we might not have survived anyway.

[2010-07-08 19:00:17] Maggie Darwin: AT least, that's what the corrupt pols would like you to beleive. "Everybody does it" is what you hear when they get caught.

[2010-07-08 19:01:11] Maggie Darwin: Good thing there's signal loss between Tammy and Hermit, or the echo chamber would melt down. < Ad Hominem. Pot stirring.

[2010-07-08 19:01:37] Tammy Nowotny: can you tell us what Bush actually accomplished w/OUT complaining about Obama or liberals? < Question from Tammy for Maggie, which Maggie declines to answer.

[2010-07-08 19:01:51] Maggie Darwin: But...but... Obama promised he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration... < Quasi accurate criticism

[2010-07-08 19:02:55] Tammy Nowotny: I am assuming Maggie was just chatlagged... looking ahead to an actual explanation of why Bush was a good President < Question from Tammy repeated

[2010-07-08 19:04:27] Tammy Nowotny: ironically, Obama was the biggest vote getter in USA history & is in fact still popular with his supporters, who are still a maajority

[2010-07-08 19:03:30] Maggie Darwin: Tammy, "it wastes your time and annoys the pig". < Maggie rudely declines to respond to Tammy's reasonable challenge. The full quotation is, "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig" Robert Heinlein

[2010-07-08 19:04:34] Hermit Barber: When Maggie gets going, she explains nothing. She only declaims the superiority of her preferred batch of clowns and then sits back shoving jibes into the mix any time iot appears to be cooling down. < A lapse of judgement on my part. I was trying to make explicit my opinion of Maggie's modus operandi.

[2010-07-08 19:04:38] Maggie Darwin: Um, no they're not. < Maggie responds to Tammy's assertion that Obama supporters are a majority

[2010-07-08 19:05:24] Maggie Darwin: Best check the polls, Tammy. Not DailyKos, of course....they just admitted theirs were phony < Untrue simplification

[2010-07-08 19:05:40] Tammy Nowotny: Just for the record, Maggie is unable to articulate a political statment which isn't an ad hominem attack on liberals < Based on the political statements made here, this appears to be a fair assessment.

Lomgren Smalls: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx < Lomren provided this and other "support" for Maggie's opinion that Obama's supporters are still a majority.

A poll at Time.com reflects "49% of respondents say they approve of the President's performance, compared to 45% who disapprove." so this assertion is simply wrong.

[2010-07-08 19:06:18] Morgaine Dinova: Maggie is a very clever person with brain shutdown on politics. I don't know how to save her, I wish I could. < Also a fair assessment.

[2010-07-08 19:06:34] Maggie Darwin: As if Tammy is arbiter of "the record". *snicker* < Claws

[2010-07-08 19:07:49] Maggie Darwin: How about them polls, Tammy? < Challenges Tammy again.

[2010-07-08 19:08:47] Maggie Darwin: Rex, doesn't your HUD do Latin? :-) < Miauw

[2010-07-08 19:10:44] Maggie Darwin: Well, Soros swore he'd remove Bush 43 as POTUS, and look....he's gone! < Maggie meant something by this, I'm sure it must be some right wing lunacy talking point.

[2010-07-08 19:11:50] Maggie Darwin: You can't "repeal evolution". < And another?

[2010-07-08 19:12:25] Hermit Barber: Lomgren: Obama's biggest popularity problems come from the fact that he is quite obviously stuck in the same sticky corrupt mess as the USA constructed and the Bush administration perfected and whether it is because he is bought, incompetent is irrelevant to the fact that while his accomplishments are not to be sneezed at, he has not managed to accomplish what is needed. That doesn't mean that as people like the Fox/Tea/GOP cluster are trying to project (and Gallup as a conservative Christian organization supports), that he has caused change, most of the dissaproval is because he has not instigated changes we need. Like dropping the military/insecurity spending by 3/4 which would solve the budget issues, allow the US to provide decent security for all their people which would drop the aggression born of insecurity which Maggie exemplifies, and still leave it spending 10 times what any other country spends on military and their wars.

[2010-07-08 19:12:29] Maggie Darwin: That didn't work either.

[2010-07-08 19:12:37] Maggie Darwin: tl;dr < Too long;Didn't Read - Again. Maggie really seems incapable of or unwilling to deal with anything more complex than one-liners - making her a perfect tea bagger.

[2010-07-08 19:13:19] Geo Islay: please pass a link next time Hermit Barber < A dig at the length of my previous post - ignored

[2010-07-08 19:13:43] Maggie Darwin: Here's the actual "legislating pi" story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill < Separate argument by Maggie. Sustaining link provided. A fair conclusion in the absence of a response from her is that she knows how to sustain a point when she can, but like most Republican trolls, she knows or suspects or fears that any attempted support of her ludicrous political assertions will be dissected and shown to be worthless.

[2010-07-08 19:14:36] Hermit Barber: Race is such a failed idea that only people with no training in genetics or sociology support it. The genetic diversity inside every supposed group is far greater than the diversity between groups. Which invalidates the concept.

[2010-07-08 19:15:28] Maggie Darwin: So, you oppose affirmative action then, Hermit? < Deliberate confabulation of correction of historic and ongoing disadvantagement of groups with the invalidity of race as a discriminator? So I address it.

[2010-07-08 19:17:51] Hermit Barber: Maggie: Are you suggesting that their are not groups of people within the USA who are not massively disadvantaged by society? If so you need to explain why the vast majority of Americans have less education and make less money than their parents and that this process has been accelerating since the 1980s. That has not anything to do with race.

[2010-07-08 19:18:20] Maggie Darwin: And yet affirmative action is based on this "race" thing. < Hermit - This is arguable. For historic reasons, "race" is largely used as an interchangeable placeholder. Failing to understand this doesn't necessarily make a person stupid. But failing to comprehend that affirmative action is desperately needed and only fair to redress historical and current disadvantages associated with overt, institutional, or involuntary discrimination does tend to indicate that a person might be a Republican.

[2010-07-08 19:19:41] Maggie Darwin: Hermit, that's a pretty extreme demographic claim. < Attempts to minimize the claim rather than attempting to achieve the impossible and refute it. I have sustained my opinion above.

[2010-07-08 19:20:21] Maggie Darwin: You think maybe dumb people have more children? < Blatant prejudice and race-baiting. I ignored it.

[2010-07-08 19:20:45] Hermit Barber: Maggie: I would rather see affirmative action being unnecessary by seeing the United States apply its capabilities to ensure that all its citizens are decently housed, with health, housing, education, pensions and social security at least as good as westernized ex soviet block states have accomplished in just 20 years.. < I state my opinion on this issue, clearly, unambiguously, and in terms that make it clear that it is possible and achievable as smaller, massively disadvantaged countries have achieved that which America has not. I state that I would prefer not to need affirmative action through establishing a much greater degree of equality between Americans.

[2010-07-08 19:20:51] Damen Hax: i'm all for restricting the stupid from reproducing.. pros outway the cons < Retained to explain the next segue.

[2010-07-08 19:21:20] Maggie Darwin: Ah, so you *do* not only believe in race-based affirmative action, you beleive it is *necessary*. < Maggie immediately mischaracterizes my words, raising her own strawman, sufficiently blatant not to require a response.

[2010-07-08 19:22:15] Maggie Darwin: Discrimination is good as long as it's motivated by the correct values. < And expands on her strawman, actually confusing "affirmative action" and "discrimination" in a further stretch not requiring more than identification to invalidate.

[2010-07-08 19:22:49] Saijanai Kuhn: loving kindness as a "correct value" as opposed to murderous hatred? Gotta agree completely, Maggie < Not sure where Saijanai was coming from

[2010-07-08 19:23:18] Hermit Barber: Damen: All reproduction needs to be restricted. But the current clowns running the circus have decided it is easier to just nuke the surplus out of existence. < My response to Damen's highly prejudicial assertion.

[2010-07-08 19:23:28] Maggie Darwin: Dude, if you trust the government to figure out what "loving kindness " is, I'm speechless. < ad hominem Saijanai

[2010-07-08 19:24:11] Maggie Darwin: Hermiot: Would you have the government restrict reproduction? This gets better and better. < Intended as ad populam, an appeal to the crowd, through showing I hold an "extreme" (in Maggie Darwin's opinion) position. I treat it as a serious question.

[2010-07-08 19:25:39] Maggie Darwin: I trust individuals to do that Saij, Not a mob. Even an enfranchised one.

[2010-07-08 19:26:27] Maggie Darwin: Collectvists "acting for the common good" are the worst lynch mob you've ever seen. < Again a debating fallacy, but not directed at me, so I did not address it.

[2010-07-08 19:26:32] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, some would say that hidining behind extreme individualism is but a masquarade for greed and selfishness < Fair observation

[2010-07-08 19:26:54] Maggie Darwin: Latif: Yes, that's a standard canard. < Notice that Maggie does not explain why she thinks this is a canard. We can only conclude that as she did not, she cannot.

[2010-07-08 19:26:56] Saijanai Kuhn: Maggie

[2010-07-08 19:27:28] Maggie Darwin: "If you won't give me your money so I can keep part and give the rest to someone else you must be selfish." < Again, like any sound-bite, a blatant simplification and mischaracterization for effect. Denial of the community and the commons that nurtures and supports her - and uses over 50% of the money she hands to the government for a military, security and wars that Maggie presumably supports does not constitute demanding her money. Also she doesn't explain who would keep it, how it would be inequitable if she benefits from it, or even why her position is different (if it is) from taxes paid by those who are anti-war which are used for war and benefit nobody. Finally, in a massive failure of logic, she fails to connect selfish and the beginning of her assertion.

[2010-07-08 19:28:26] Hermit Barber: Maggie: China has turned their population growth around. Maybe too late, but it is turned and will stabilize and begin to reduce in 2060 if we live that long. So has Europe. It is only in the religion infested Americas, Africa and Asia where populations continue to soar out of control. According to Rand Corporation (not a bastion of liberal thinking) in a report, NSSM200, drawn up for President Nixon and ratified by Gerald Ford (Not the USA's most liberal presidents) this action was critical to prevent a catastrophic collapse of civilization due to resource limitations, probably in the 2000 to 2030 time frame.

[2010-07-08 19:29:20] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, you just don't want to give your money to other citizens of your country ("everybody should be taking care of themselves"), you have no problem giving it to the defense department? < Another excellent observation by lkalif

[2010-07-08 19:29:25] Maggie Darwin: I can't wait until Hermit brings us the benefits of Chinese culture. No, really. No wonder she hates Google. < I did warn you this was coming :-) The other asinine assertion regarding Chinese culture I ignored as it appears irrelevant to the argument.

[2010-07-08 19:29:46] Maggie Darwin: Latif: I read the constitution.

[2010-07-08 19:29:59] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, forget the constitution

[2010-07-08 19:30:09] Maggie Darwin: And if you think most taxes are "giving to other citizens", you're deluded.

[2010-07-08 19:30:44] Maggie Darwin: Latif, sorry, I won't forget the Constitution. that's the problem with liberals, they want you to.

[2010-07-08 19:30:48] Hermit Barber: Maggie: Rather than act to control populations, the US designed and NATO adopted plans for a war of depopulation when the Westphalian system collapses courtesy of resource constraints. These plans are public as they were leaked and printed by at least La Monde and Der Spiegal in 1978. NSSM200 was declassified in the early 1990s. We are now one crop failure away from the trigger for these wars.

[2010-07-08 19:31:12] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, I'm asking for what you stand for, not your interpretation of the law

[2010-07-08 19:31:23] Maggie Darwin: The Constitution is the ground rules under which the states formed the nation. They matter. A lot.

[2010-07-08 19:31:40] Maggie Darwin: Latif, that *is* what I stand for.

[2010-07-08 19:32:03] Maggie Darwin: I disclosed it, you just don't like it.

[2010-07-08 19:32:09] Hermit Barber: Maggie, how much of a tax hike do you imagine it took to trigger the Boston Tea Party? < No response anticipated or provided.

[2010-07-08 19:32:27] Maggie Darwin: Kopilo: Because the 2nd admendment doesn't condone murder,

[2010-07-08 19:33:36] Maggie Darwin: Kopilo: Is that murder?

[2010-07-08 19:33:58] Damen Hax: lookk how people blame bush (last one) for lots of crap.. you really think that idiot orchastrated.. anything? lol < It is relevant. Promise :-)

[2010-07-08 19:33:43] Hermit Barber: And at least GW Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush and Barack Obama II are CIC and War Criminals.

[2010-07-08 19:34:16] Hermit Barber: Damen: He fell off a Segway :-) < Told you so :-O

[2010-07-08 19:34:32] Hermit Barber: That is one hell of an accomplishment. < Evil grin

[2010-07-08 19:34:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey according to the woman he nomiated for SCOTUS, GW is the most intelligent man she ever met < Oops :->

[2010-07-08 19:35:00] Hermit Barber: She didn't get out much, did she :-P < I swear I could not resist the opening :-O

[2010-07-08 19:35:48] Maggie Darwin: Sorry, JB, I told Hermit Obama was going to fix her intarwebs and she went off on the usual tear... < And mischaracterises what happened here. Is she sufficiently dissonant to imagine that anyone will buy it?

[2010-07-08 19:35:54] Hermit Barber: His speech pathology is a blatant sign of neural damage due to long-term cocaine abuse. < Serious response

[2010-07-08 19:37:16] JB Hancroft: Hermit, now now... I don't think Latif's speech pathology is all that noticeable ;)

[2010-07-08 19:38:29] Hermit Barber: JB Hancroft: Nobody was confused you noble shit stirrer. < Again, irresistible. Fortunately JB is a friend and recognised from the phrasing that it was intended in fun.

Complete unedited log

[2010-07-08 18:34:16] Hermit Barber: [16:53:42] Hermit Barber: Oh my god. Pee first. Then watch this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg&feature=player_embedded

[2010-07-08 18:34:54] Geo Islay: it is good

[2010-07-08 18:35:06] Zha Ewry: "It has the wifis"

[2010-07-08 18:35:48] Zha Ewry: I nearly died watching that one the first time I saw it

[2010-07-08 18:36:04] Geo Islay: the guy just lost his job over it How lucky can you get

[2010-07-08 18:36:26] Latif Khalifa: verizon should hire him ;)

[2010-07-08 18:36:34] Geo Islay: someone well

[2010-07-08 18:36:41] Latif Khalifa: droid x, you can hold it any way you want ;)

[2010-07-08 18:36:48] Hermit Barber: I liked the "bigger Gbs"

[2010-07-08 18:37:01] Hermit Barber: 3.6 million views

[2010-07-08 18:37:42] Maggie Darwin: Where ya been, Hermit, that's been out for ages. Theer's an iPhone version too.

[2010-07-08 18:38:25] Hermit Barber: Now if he got a nickel for all the laughs he gave/He'd be set for a fair living until he's in the grave.

[2010-07-08 18:38:52] Hermit Barber: Maggie, I only saw it today :-(

[2010-07-08 18:39:06] Hermit Barber is behind the times in the midworst.

[2010-07-08 18:39:22] Geo Islay: im sure Google well cheet him out of a few nickels

[2010-07-08 18:40:15] Hermit Barber: You mean Google nickle and dimes people? I thought they were not evil :-O

[2010-07-08 18:40:38] CodeWarrior Carling: when you google evil.. they don't show up so I think they are ok

[2010-07-08 18:40:42] Geo Islay: dont it well get you into truble

[2010-07-08 18:40:53] CodeWarrior Carling: it does autosuggest monsanto though.. so you know their evil ranking system is fair

[2010-07-08 18:41:24] Hermit Barber: :-)

[2010-07-08 18:41:28] CodeWarrior Carling: I think apple and adobe have paid top rankings

[2010-07-08 18:41:33] Geo Islay: thiink that is

[2010-07-08 18:45:51] Maggie Darwin: Don't worry, Hermit. Obama will soon bring teh intarwebs to anyplace there may be Democratic votes.

[2010-07-08 18:46:11] Maggie Darwin: Guadalajara is next, I hear.

[2010-07-08 18:46:15] Latif Khalifa: lol, the obligatary obama bashing

[2010-07-08 18:46:23] xstorm Radek: now thats odd i got called in to ar a mega prim over peoples land and found other prim litter belonging to a ontyne

[2010-07-08 18:47:11] Geo Islay: he's doing a fine job

[2010-07-08 18:47:45] Maggie Darwin: Latif, he makes it so easy. Much harder to Bushbash, and yet the libs do it all the time. It's a highly developed tech.

[2010-07-08 18:48:29] Maggie Darwin: Of course, the've been doing it for almost a decade now.

[2010-07-08 18:48:30] Geo Islay: lip flapping now thats funny

[2010-07-08 18:49:40] Maggie Darwin: Here: Now you can't say you never saw anything good on Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/entertainment/2010/06/10/vintage-ads-th...

[2010-07-08 18:50:07] Geo Islay: and never well

[2010-07-08 18:50:11] Morgaine Dinova: If you take sides in politics, you've bought into their game. There is only one party, and the rest is just to keep the dumb masses' eyes off the real ball.

[2010-07-08 18:50:41] Lomgren Smalls: The only party is "the losing party" because nobody ever wins, truly, in politics

[2010-07-08 18:51:00] Geo Islay: i dont need a wetherman to know witch way the wind blows

[2010-07-08 18:51:23] CodeWarrior Carling: or which fields just got sprayed with silage

[2010-07-08 18:51:24] Geo Islay: or woman

[2010-07-08 18:51:33] Maggie Darwin: But you do need a spellchecker

[2010-07-08 18:51:49] Geo Islay: so fucking what

[2010-07-08 18:51:50] Morgaine Dinova: Nobody who believes in politics wins, that's for sure. And you're not meant to, you're meant to lose. The winners are outside politics, and what they do is not on the voting agenda.

[2010-07-08 18:52:06] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, didn't I see you get called "technocommunist" on twitter? lol

[2010-07-08 18:52:17] Morgaine Dinova: So switch off the telly and get a brain.

[2010-07-08 18:52:21] Dahlia Trimble: I thought the way to get ahead is to make er... um... "campaign contributions"

[2010-07-08 18:52:24] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif had a good laugh

[2010-07-08 18:52:29] Tammy Nowotny: You might own guns and you might even own tanks

You might be somebody’s landlord, you might even own banks

But you’re gonna have to serve somebody, yes indeed

You’re gonna have to serve somebody

Well, it may be the devil or it may be the Lord

But you’re gonna have to serve somebody

[2010-07-08 18:52:33] Maggie Darwin: Maybe. Prok blocked me long ago.

[2010-07-08 18:53:13] CodeWarrior Carling: ok.. can someone start talking race here.. politics and religion aren't quite enough

[2010-07-08 18:53:28] Maggie Darwin: According to her, since I can code I must be a bolshevik. Quite a red herring from Ms. "Civil Society"

[2010-07-08 18:53:28] Geo Islay: i am looking at the switch

[2010-07-08 18:53:46] Maggie Darwin: tl;dr

[2010-07-08 18:54:08] Damen Hax: you all have less than a 1% chance of being smarter than me

[2010-07-08 18:54:31] Geo Islay: a masterbetter

[2010-07-08 18:54:38] CodeWarrior Carling: some of us are smart enough not to gamble though Damen

[2010-07-08 18:54:38] Maggie Darwin: Good thing it's not left to chance.

[2010-07-08 18:54:39] Damen Hax artfully jams a pole into the works, provoking thoughts of a different nature

[2010-07-08 18:54:45] Morgaine Dinova: Tammy: you don't have to serve somebody always, at least not for all of your life. Work your ass off and buy a house, pay all your debts, and then tell the masters Good Bye. Live at least a 1/3rd of your life in freedom.

[2010-07-08 18:55:00] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: for all comrades unashamed marxist out there :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0

[2010-07-08 18:55:08] Damen Hax: and my last name is gamble lol

[2010-07-08 18:55:34] CodeWarrior Carling: is your first name Proctor?

[2010-07-08 18:56:00] Kopilo Hallard: I never understood why anti-capitalism and marxisim was considered the same thing

[2010-07-08 18:56:07] Damen Hax: sounds funny yes, but its true; call me mr gamble

[2010-07-08 18:56:11] Tammy Nowotny: I don't quite understand why the rightwingers get so insulted when Bush gets denigrated.... he was elected uncer very questionablke circumstances; he started 2 wars which we can't win; he bankrupted the nation; the economy collapsed on his watch; he preised during 9/11 w/out uttering even one quote which anyone remembers--- he was not a successful President!

[2010-07-08 18:56:16] Maggie Darwin: Morgaine is living in the past. Nice to retire while such things are still possible.

[2010-07-08 18:56:30] Tammy Nowotny: *he presided during 9/11

[2010-07-08 18:56:44] Rex Cronon: so, mr genius. r u einstein's bastard child:)

[2010-07-08 18:56:47] Tammy Nowotny: Maggie, Bush was a BAD President

[2010-07-08 18:56:48] Morgaine Dinova: It's still possible. And I haven't retired. Techies don't retire, they just take fewer jobs on :-)

[2010-07-08 18:57:07] Damen Hax: politics.. race.. religion.. has nothing on self worth and the delusions related

[2010-07-08 18:57:10] Geo Islay: LL need to fix mute in text chat

[2010-07-08 18:57:12] Maggie Darwin: YTammy: Not at all unusual for liberals to be mystified by politics. Even when they win.

[2010-07-08 18:57:20] Kopilo Hallard: agreed Geo

[2010-07-08 18:57:59] Damen Hax: i am right hear me rorar.. is all i'm seeing in this convo

[2010-07-08 18:58:28] Lomgren Smalls: Yup, I see a lot of people thinking their opinion is right.

[2010-07-08 18:58:36] Lomgren Smalls: And that nobody else's is

[2010-07-08 18:58:43] Morgaine Dinova: You guys still don't get it, as you continue your party politics. You've all lost. And the worst loss is mental --- you are serfs to a manufactured myth.

[2010-07-08 18:59:02] Damen Hax: yes Lom, which is why i pointed out mathcmatically.. its more likely i'm right lol

[2010-07-08 18:59:03] Maggie Darwin: An astoundingley small fraction of the poulation beleive their own opinions are wrong.

[2010-07-08 18:59:08] Damen Hax: *

[2010-07-08 18:59:10] Lomgren Smalls: At this point, ALL of politics in the US is one thing. Highly corrupt.

[2010-07-08 18:59:21] Lomgren Smalls: I believe that's something we can all agree on.

[2010-07-08 18:59:24] Morgaine Dinova: Not just the US, Lom

[2010-07-08 18:59:37] Kopilo Hallard: The UK too

[2010-07-08 18:59:40] Kopilo Hallard: :p

[2010-07-08 18:59:48] Lomgren Smalls: I live in the US, so I can only speak for the US

[2010-07-08 18:59:55] Morgaine Dinova: I'm in the UK, and it's identical. There is only party, and it crosses national boundaries.

[2010-07-08 19:00:03] CodeWarrior Carling: modern politics.. would you like to be sodomized or buggered?

[2010-07-08 19:00:10] Morgaine Dinova: one* party

[2010-07-08 19:00:17] Maggie Darwin: AT least, that's what the corrupt pols would like you to beleive. "Everybody does it" is what you hear when they get caught.

[2010-07-08 19:00:18] Morgaine Dinova: As CW says.

[2010-07-08 19:00:18] Rex Cronon: corruption in politics? is there a country in the world that doesn't have that:)

[2010-07-08 19:00:38] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: in the US they have it institutionalized, it's on the higher level. what they call "lobbying" over there is called corruption and people go to jail for it, they have to be more subtle in their corruption over here :P

[2010-07-08 19:01:11] Maggie Darwin: Good thing there's signal loss between Tammy and Hermit, or the echo chamber would melt down.

[2010-07-08 19:01:35] Kopilo Hallard: I don't think the international waters has corruption in politics because there is none :)

[2010-07-08 19:01:37] Tammy Nowotny: can you tell us what Bush actually accomplished w/OUT complaining about Obama or liberals? In fact assume Obama doesn't even exist :-) I bet you can't do it....

[2010-07-08 19:01:51] Maggie Darwin: But...but... Obama promised he wouldn't have lobbyists in his administration...

[2010-07-08 19:02:00] Damen Hax: aggressive we are to those that dont share our beliefs

[2010-07-08 19:02:26] Damen Hax: no matter how hard you try to be nuetral

[2010-07-08 19:02:40] Morgaine Dinova: Oh we have plenty of lobbying in Europe too, Latif. There's a more socially acceptable face to politics in Europe, but underneath it's the same rot. The masses are there to be exploited.

[2010-07-08 19:02:50] Rex Cronon: u sound like yoda:)

[2010-07-08 19:02:55] Tammy Nowotny: I am assuming Maggie was just chatlagged... looking ahead to an actual explanation of why Bush was a good President

[2010-07-08 19:03:14] Damen Hax: watch carefully, you see groups meld together due to their belief constructs

[2010-07-08 19:03:20] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Morgaine, I agree, in the end is the same corruption

[2010-07-08 19:03:30] Maggie Darwin: Tammy, "it wastes your time and annoys the pig".

[2010-07-08 19:03:32] Damen Hax: even on timescales as small as a passing convo

[2010-07-08 19:03:42] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: was just commenting on it being institutionalized in the US

[2010-07-08 19:04:23] CodeWarrior Carling: Si hoc adfixum in obice legere potes, et liberaliter educatus et nimis propinquus ades

[2010-07-08 19:04:27] Tammy Nowotny: ironically, Obama was the biggest vote getter in USA history & is in fact still popular with his supporters, who are still a maajority

[2010-07-08 19:04:38] Maggie Darwin: Um, no they're not.

[2010-07-08 19:05:12] Morgaine Dinova: Someone should write a book of fiction, in which governments work to improve things for the people of the country.

[2010-07-08 19:05:12] Lomgren Smalls: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administra...

[2010-07-08 19:05:24] Maggie Darwin: Best check the polls, Tammy. Not DailyKos, of course....they just admitted theirs were phony

[2010-07-08 19:05:40] Tammy Nowotny: Just for the record, Maggie is unable to articulate a political statment which isn't an ad hominem attack on liberals

[2010-07-08 19:05:55] Lomgren Smalls: http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

[2010-07-08 19:06:18] Morgaine Dinova: Maggie is a very clever person with brain shutdown on politics. I don't know how to save her, I wish I could.

[2010-07-08 19:06:34] Maggie Darwin: As if Tammy is arbiter of "the record". *snicker*

[2010-07-08 19:06:49] CodeWarrior Carling: Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscripti catapultas habebunt

[2010-07-08 19:06:51] Tammy Nowotny: She has no politucal ideas... all she has is a hatred of "liberals"

[2010-07-08 19:07:27] Tammy Nowotny: I will say this: she is "irreverent" and "politically incorrect."

[2010-07-08 19:07:49] Maggie Darwin: How about them polls, Tammy?

[2010-07-08 19:08:02] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: we need conservatives too, for the society to prosper ;)

[2010-07-08 19:08:07] Rex Cronon: CW. can u also provide english translation? i really don't feel like starting googleing that:)

[2010-07-08 19:08:45] CodeWarrior Carling: http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/omnibus.html :-)

[2010-07-08 19:08:47] Maggie Darwin: Rex, doesn't your HUD do Latin? :-)

[2010-07-08 19:09:01] Kopilo Hallard: "Someone should write a book of fiction, in which governments work to improve things for the people of the country." doesn't that happen orally every election term?

[2010-07-08 19:09:03] CodeWarrior Carling: when xcatapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults

[2010-07-08 19:09:05] Rex Cronon: i don't have a latin HUD:)

[2010-07-08 19:09:26] Kaiser Bogomil: I kind of prefer an approach to politics that might be more objective ... without parties ... more like science

[2010-07-08 19:09:26] CodeWarrior Carling: if you can read this bumper stickewr, you are both very well educated and far too close

[2010-07-08 19:09:34] Tammy Nowotny: well it doesn't matter anyway: George Soros supports Obama's programs, and Soros cannot be stopped :-)

[2010-07-08 19:10:03] Kopilo Hallard: I'm sure a bullet could stop any human

[2010-07-08 19:10:11] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Soros gets stopped all the time

[2010-07-08 19:10:13] Kaiser Bogomil: imagine if we voted on scietific issues?

[2010-07-08 19:10:20] Rex Cronon: thanks for the translation:)

[2010-07-08 19:10:44] Maggie Darwin: Well, Soros swore he'd remove Bush 43 as POTUS, and look....he's gone!

[2010-07-08 19:10:48] Kopilo Hallard: kaiser: politics and science is a bad idea :(

[2010-07-08 19:11:04] Kaiser Bogomil: I like it :)

[2010-07-08 19:11:11] CodeWarrior Carling: How much wood would a woodchuck chuck is a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

[2010-07-08 19:11:13] Geo Islay: what was that

[2010-07-08 19:11:23] Kopilo Hallard: no doubt we would be voting on things like "is embrionic stem cell research ethical"

[2010-07-08 19:11:30] Tammy Nowotny: I never understood why rightwingers are so eager to repeal evolution: why not go after something which is an actual problem, like the 3rd law of thermodynamics?

[2010-07-08 19:11:50] Maggie Darwin: You can't "repeal evolution".

[2010-07-08 19:12:14] CodeWarrior Carling: if you can legislate pi, you can repeal evolution

[2010-07-08 19:12:18] CodeWarrior Carling: And remember, there aren't any Romans around to correct your pronunciation.

Atque memento, nulli adsunt Romanorum qui locutionem tuam corrigant.

[2010-07-08 19:12:27] Kaiser Bogomil: no Kopi .... we'd ask "what is "ethical" " find the principle of "ethics" and apply it

[2010-07-08 19:12:28] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Tammy, to be fair, only a minority of christian zaelots within the conservative movement opose the idea of evolution

[2010-07-08 19:12:29] Maggie Darwin: That didn't work either.

[2010-07-08 19:12:37] Maggie Darwin: tl;dr

[2010-07-08 19:12:51] Damen Hax: Making judgements without having all the input needed.. Lol good1

[2010-07-08 19:12:55] CodeWarrior Carling: ok.. excellent! evoluition! that's got politics and religion.. and RACE!! you've done it!

[2010-07-08 19:13:01] Kopilo Hallard: kaiser: "what is ethical" is a branch of philisophy not science :p

[2010-07-08 19:13:04] Rex Cronon: wot. everybody loves them:)

[2010-07-08 19:13:04] CodeWarrior Carling: abnd book burning!

[2010-07-08 19:13:19] Geo Islay: please pass a link next time Hermit Barber

[2010-07-08 19:13:25] Kaiser Bogomil: so you're an authtoriity eh?

[2010-07-08 19:13:33] Kopilo Hallard: lol

[2010-07-08 19:13:33] Damen Hax looks over the loudening crowd indirectly "idiots"

[2010-07-08 19:13:43] Maggie Darwin: Here's the actual "legislating pi" story: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill

[2010-07-08 19:14:16] CodeWarrior Carling: oh sure.. cite a completely right wing place like wikipedia L-P

[2010-07-08 19:14:23] Kopilo Hallard: if you apply logic to ethics, then you are talking about the process of justification, ergo philisophy. I'm not sure what else science has to offer to ethics :p

[2010-07-08 19:14:25] Geo Islay: not that i well use it just cuts down on wast

[2010-07-08 19:14:28] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: the trouble with the conservative movement in the US is that it has been hijacked by loudmouth religious fundamentalist

[2010-07-08 19:14:36] Hermit Barber: RACE is such a failed idea that only people with no training in genetics or sociology support it. The genetic diversity inside every supposed group is far greater than the diversity between groups. Which invalidates the concept.

[2010-07-08 19:14:43] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: (and mainstram conservatives dare not oppose them)

[2010-07-08 19:14:47] Kaiser Bogomil: you keep speaking of ethics as if you know what you were talking about

[2010-07-08 19:14:47] Kopilo Hallard: what is race?

[2010-07-08 19:14:48] Damen Hax: lkalif ++

[2010-07-08 19:15:28] Maggie Darwin: So, you oppose affirmative action then, Hermit?

[2010-07-08 19:16:00] Kaiser Bogomil: Kopi - learn about optial forms

[2010-07-08 19:16:25] Kopilo Hallard: optial?

[2010-07-08 19:16:45] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Kopilo, race conditions are hard-to-debug threading bugs :P

[2010-07-08 19:16:51] Geo Islay: night

[2010-07-08 19:16:58] Kopilo Hallard: night

[2010-07-08 19:17:10] Kopilo Hallard: lkalif heheheeh

[2010-07-08 19:17:34] Morgaine Dinova: There is no possible affirmative action inside the political system. It's designed to stop affirmative action, as that might cost the feudal lords money, and could even overturn the system.

[2010-07-08 19:18:20] Maggie Darwin: And yet affirmative action is based on this "race" thing.

[2010-07-08 19:18:43] Saijanai Kuhn: as an attempt to make up for 400 years of abuse which hasn't fully ended even now

[2010-07-08 19:19:23] Kopilo Hallard: politicians - the spin doctors on spinning what will bring in the most tax as being best for the entire nation

[2010-07-08 19:19:41] Maggie Darwin: Hermit, that's a pretty extreme demographic claim.

[2010-07-08 19:19:43] Kopilo Hallard: >_> <_<

[2010-07-08 19:20:11] Damen Hax: i'm superior to you cause i have more (or less) melanin in my body

[2010-07-08 19:20:14] Saijanai Kuhn: nonsense. Politicians spindoctor whatever will get them reelected. Taxes, unless they benefit the people who get them reelected, don't mean squat to politicans either way

[2010-07-08 19:20:21] Maggie Darwin: You think maybe dumb people have more children?

[2010-07-08 19:20:43] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: poor people have more children on average

[2010-07-08 19:20:51] Damen Hax: i'm all for restricting the stupid from reproducing.. pros outway the cons

[2010-07-08 19:20:54] Morgaine Dinova: Dumb people talk party politics. They're easy to spot.

[2010-07-08 19:21:01] Kopilo Hallard: lol

[2010-07-08 19:21:20] Maggie Darwin: Ah, so you *do* not only believe in race-based affirmative action, you beleive it is *necessary*.

[2010-07-08 19:21:28] Kopilo Hallard: has "dumbness" even proven to be genetic or is it just heridiattory :p

[2010-07-08 19:21:30] Saijanai Kuhn: justifiable even now

[2010-07-08 19:21:54] Damen Hax: malformed frontal lobes.. inabiltiy to apply reason before action

[2010-07-08 19:22:03] Damen Hax: *

[2010-07-08 19:22:15] Maggie Darwin: Discrimination is good as long as it's motivated by the correct values.

[2010-07-08 19:22:49] Saijanai Kuhn: loving kindness as a "correct value" as opposed to murderous hatred? Gotta agree completely, Maggie

[2010-07-08 19:23:03] Damen Hax: size of your brain does appear to be inherant, however environment plays a big part.. as the father of the worlds best fem chess player would prove.

[2010-07-08 19:23:18] Hermit Barber: Damen: All reproduction needs to be restricted. But the current clowns running the circus have decided it is easier to just nuke the surplus out of existence.

[2010-07-08 19:23:21] Kopilo Hallard: I would disagree

[2010-07-08 19:23:28] Maggie Darwin: Dude, if you trust the government to figure out what "loving kindness " is, I'm speechless.

[2010-07-08 19:23:33] Kopilo Hallard: unfortunately it takes more than corrent motivation

[2010-07-08 19:23:40] Kopilo Hallard: Australia is a good example of that

[2010-07-08 19:23:43] Saijanai Kuhn: Do you trust the lynch mobs to do better?

[2010-07-08 19:24:11] Maggie Darwin: Hermiot: Would you have the government restrict reproduction? This gets better and better.

[2010-07-08 19:24:25] Kopilo Hallard: sai: the stolen generation can be attributed to the government trying to do the "right" thing in a "caring" way

[2010-07-08 19:24:29] Rex Cronon: what is a lynch mob supposed to do better?

[2010-07-08 19:24:36] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: conspiracy theorist on both wings are amuzing

[2010-07-08 19:24:56] Kopilo Hallard: that's why I said unfortunately

[2010-07-08 19:24:57] Saijanai Kuhn: f you trust the government to figure out what "loving kindness " is, I'm speechless.

[2010-07-08 19:25:19] Kopilo Hallard: they gave education, homes, water, food

[2010-07-08 19:25:39] Maggie Darwin: I trust individuals to do that Saij, Not a mob. Even an enfranchised one.

[2010-07-08 19:26:06] Morgaine Dinova: Latif: amusing for a while. After some amusement, you just have to cry. People don't have to be cattle, but they seem to want to be.

[2010-07-08 19:26:07] Damen Hax: i like historians, they take more notice of the roots.. where it all began

[2010-07-08 19:26:13] Saijanai Kuhn: so you think the civil rights laws should never have been passed?

[2010-07-08 19:26:23] Kopilo Hallard: O.o

[2010-07-08 19:26:26] Kopilo Hallard: that was random

[2010-07-08 19:26:27] Maggie Darwin: Collectvists "acting for the common good" are the worst lynch mob you've ever seen.

[2010-07-08 19:26:32] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, some would say that hidining behind extreme individualism is but a masquarade for greed and selfishness

[2010-07-08 19:26:49] Kopilo Hallard: sai: who was that question aimed at?

[2010-07-08 19:26:54] Maggie Darwin: Latif: Yes, that's a standard canard.

[2010-07-08 19:26:56] Saijanai Kuhn: Maggie

[2010-07-08 19:26:59] Kopilo Hallard: ahh

[2010-07-08 19:27:06] Kopilo Hallard: phew I was about to say, wtf lol

[2010-07-08 19:27:28] Maggie Darwin: "If you won't give me your money so I can keep part and give the rest to someone else you must be selfish."

[2010-07-08 19:27:33] Damen Hax: selfishness is at the root of every good deed

[2010-07-08 19:27:55] Rex Cronon: i have to say that the discussion about politics i a lot more animated than when we r talking about inteoperability protocols:)

[2010-07-08 19:28:19] Saijanai Kuhn: though, governments who attempt to do the "right thing" by giving things away probably aren't doing anyone any good. THere has to be a balance between challenge and reward. Problem is, that balance is different for everyone and governments are good at missing the boat no matter what they try (in either direction)

[2010-07-08 19:28:27] Rex Cronon: if everybody could show the same passion when talking about protocols...

[2010-07-08 19:28:40] Kopilo Hallard: lol

[2010-07-08 19:28:58] Saijanai Kuhn: ImprovedInsgggggtantMessage SUCKS!!!!!!!!!

[2010-07-08 19:29:02] Damen Hax: thousands of years of research into controlling you the best way.. hmm i'm starting to think they have it figured.

[2010-07-08 19:29:25] Maggie Darwin: I can't wait until Hermit brings us the benefits of Chinese culture. No, really. No wonder she hates Google.

[2010-07-08 19:29:38] Rex Cronon: we would have been done with this protocol months ago:)

[2010-07-08 19:29:46] Maggie Darwin: Latif: I read the constitution.

[2010-07-08 19:29:59] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, forget the constitution

[2010-07-08 19:30:03] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: what would you do

[2010-07-08 19:30:09] Maggie Darwin: And if you think most taxes are "giving to other citizens", you're deluded.

[2010-07-08 19:30:26] Kopilo Hallard: sure it is

[2010-07-08 19:30:34] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: but you oppose the idea of helping the poor by way of tax

[2010-07-08 19:30:38] Damen Hax: Anyone trying to report a bug to google probly finds some angst lol what kind of mentality has you forget to care about bug reports or adding a support link

[2010-07-08 19:30:41] Kopilo Hallard: politicans are citizens

[2010-07-08 19:30:43] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: "idividuals should do it"

[2010-07-08 19:30:44] Maggie Darwin: Latif, sorry, I won't forget the Constitution. that's the problem with liberals, they want you to.

[2010-07-08 19:30:57] Damen Hax: Not a nice kind.

[2010-07-08 19:31:12] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, I'm asking for what you stand for, not your interpretation of the law

[2010-07-08 19:31:23] Maggie Darwin: The Constitution is the ground rules under which the states formed the nation. They matter. A lot.

[2010-07-08 19:31:40] Maggie Darwin: Latif, that *is* what I stand for.

[2010-07-08 19:31:45] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: ok, so you don't want to disclose your own position

[2010-07-08 19:31:48] Kopilo Hallard: I'm still wondering why no one executed the 2nd ammendment on georg bushes ass :p

[2010-07-08 19:32:03] Maggie Darwin: I disclosed it, you just don't like it.

[2010-07-08 19:32:09] Hermit Barber: Maggie, how much of a tax hike do you imagine it took to trigger the Boston Tea Party?

[2010-07-08 19:32:21] Rex Cronon: isn't the president also the commander and chief?

[2010-07-08 19:32:27] Maggie Darwin: Kopilo: Because the 2nd admendment doesn't condone murder,

[2010-07-08 19:32:46] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: no, you never said if you opposed helping the less fortunate by tax funded means

[2010-07-08 19:32:47] Kopilo Hallard: it condones the use of weapons against tyranist governments :p

[2010-07-08 19:32:52] Damen Hax: spokesperson for the group that doesnt want to get the blame

[2010-07-08 19:33:36] Maggie Darwin: Kopilo: Is that murder?

[2010-07-08 19:33:43] Hermit Barber: And at least GW Bush, Bill Clinton, George W Bush and Barack Obama II are CIC and War Criminals.

[2010-07-08 19:33:58] Damen Hax: lookk how people blame bush (last one) for lots of crap.. you really think that idiot orchastrated.. anything? lol

[2010-07-08 19:34:04] Damen Hax: *

[2010-07-08 19:34:16] Hermit Barber: Damen: He fell off a Segway :-)

[2010-07-08 19:34:32] Hermit Barber: That is one hell of an accomplishment.

[2010-07-08 19:34:35] Saijanai Kuhn: Hey according to the woman he nomiated for SCOTUS, GW is the most intelligent man she ever met

[2010-07-08 19:34:48] JB Hancroft wanders into the middle of the convo, wondering if he could interject a few SL viewer-related questions...

[2010-07-08 19:34:56] Morgaine Dinova: As Damen says. And yet, people here are still arguing about parties and figureheads. Very sad state of affairs.

[2010-07-08 19:35:00] Hermit Barber: She didn't get out much, did sje :-P

[2010-07-08 19:35:10] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: JB, does your viewr have a birth certificate? :P

[2010-07-08 19:35:17] JB Hancroft: (perhaps IM me directly, if you've had good or bad experiences with quad core and SLI or Crossfires configs. thanks :)

[2010-07-08 19:35:17] Kopilo Hallard: JB: I'm sure they would be relevent

[2010-07-08 19:35:21] Saijanai Kuhn: Hawaii doesn't count

[2010-07-08 19:35:33] JB Hancroft: lol.. my viewer is not a Birther! ;)

[2010-07-08 19:35:45] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: JB, prove it! :P

[2010-07-08 19:35:46] Kopilo Hallard: does it have a social security number?

[2010-07-08 19:35:48] Maggie Darwin: Sorry, JB, I told Hermit Obama was going to fix her intarwebs and she went off on the usual tear...

[2010-07-08 19:35:54] Hermit Barber: His speech pathology is a blatant sign of neural damage due to long-term cocaine abuse.

[2010-07-08 19:35:55] JB Hancroft: it has a serial number :)

[2010-07-08 19:36:02] Rex Cronon: version nr=birgggth ceritificate:)

[2010-07-08 19:36:06] Saijanai Kuhn: and newspaper clippings from 48 years ago only prove how widespread and deep the conspiracy really is

[2010-07-08 19:36:08] Maggie Darwin: JB: I run quad core here.

[2010-07-08 19:36:13] JB Hancroft: ++Rex

[2010-07-08 19:36:28] Kopilo Hallard: Rex+=1

[2010-07-08 19:36:37] JB Hancroft: Maggie - how does Snowglobe or others run across the cores? better that two cores?

[2010-07-08 19:37:16] JB Hancroft: Hermit, now now... I don't think Latif's speech pathology is all that noticeable ;)

[2010-07-08 19:37:17] Maggie Darwin: I actually never investigated how it dispatched

[2010-07-08 19:37:37] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: lol

[2010-07-08 19:37:55] Maggie Darwin: Not noticably different, The networking and rendering issues here clobbered any significant measurements

[2010-07-08 19:37:56] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: "i never inhaled" :P

[2010-07-08 19:38:13] Maggie Darwin: I went back to 1.23.5

[2010-07-08 19:38:18] JB Hancroft: Maggie... ok, nods.

[2010-07-08 19:38:29] Hermit Barber: JB Hancroft: Nobody was confused you noble shit stirrer.

[2010-07-08 19:38:42] Maggie Darwin: ANything else eventually deteriorated into multisecond ping sims and rendering freezes.

[2010-07-08 19:38:55] JB Hancroft: heh... love you too :) I've learned it from The Best = Groupies!

[2010-07-08 19:39:03] Kopilo Hallard: lol

[2010-07-08 19:39:05] Maggie Darwin: Including Emerald.

[2010-07-08 19:39:18] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: we had an interesting meeting with Oz

[2010-07-08 19:39:30] Maggie Darwin: So I heard.

[2010-07-08 19:39:31] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: we = developers of 3rd party viewers

[2010-07-08 19:39:40] JB Hancroft: Oz... Emerald.... synchronicity.

[2010-07-08 19:39:50] Maggie Darwin: Apparently all viewers are crap. What a newsflash.

[2010-07-08 19:39:53] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: they showed us some stats for the first time

[2010-07-08 19:39:59] Maggie Darwin: Did he just find this out?

[2010-07-08 19:40:07] Maggie Darwin: Cause I could have told him.

[2010-07-08 19:40:13] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: this was the first time they published it

[2010-07-08 19:40:36] JB Hancroft: what metric is "crap" ?

[2010-07-08 19:40:38] Maggie Darwin: I remever how upset the Lindens used to get back on SL-DEV when I pressed them to release numbers.

[2010-07-08 19:40:46] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: *the best* viewer have 15-16% of what they call irregular session terminations

[2010-07-08 19:40:53] Kopilo Hallard: JB: metric bullshit is crap

[2010-07-08 19:41:03] Maggie Darwin: "crap" is a MTBF that the developer is ashamed of

[2010-07-08 19:41:15] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: they are all in 15-20% range

[2010-07-08 19:41:28] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: except Kirstens at 25%

[2010-07-08 19:41:34] Damen Hax: i'm so cool, i know what i'm doing.. they are silent cause i'm better than them.. oh whats this, i'm being told i'm useless.. doh

[2010-07-08 19:42:03] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: so basically one in five SL sessions ends up in a crash

[2010-07-08 19:42:03] JB Hancroft: MTBF for crashes?

[2010-07-08 19:42:13] JB Hancroft: what an amazingly low bar for "quality"....

[2010-07-08 19:42:22] Maggie Darwin: MTBF for the viewer. A crash would be a failure, no?

[2010-07-08 19:42:32] Kopilo Hallard: what is MTBF?

[2010-07-08 19:42:40] Maggie Darwin: Mean Time Between Failures

[2010-07-08 19:42:44] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: we got stats for session termination

[2010-07-08 19:42:46] Kopilo Hallard: ahh thanks

[2010-07-08 19:42:46] JB Hancroft: Mean Time Between F****

[2010-07-08 19:43:02] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: ie. how many times the grid detects disconnect without getting logout request

[2010-07-08 19:43:15] Maggie Darwin: A scandal what they teach in school these days,

[2010-07-08 19:43:23] Kopilo Hallard: lol

[2010-07-08 19:43:43] Kopilo Hallard: well as far as I can tell, the region can't detect a disconnect till you try to reconnect

[2010-07-08 19:43:46] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: they will be sending us (weekly) crash rates for our own clients

[2010-07-08 19:44:06] JB Hancroft: Thanks to Hermit for the comments on her SLI experiences :)

[2010-07-08 19:44:16] JB Hancroft waves ... 'night all :)

[2010-07-08 19:44:17] Maggie Darwin: Wish is low because it excludes actual crashes and sessions that became useless but actually disconnected eventuall on demand. I had a lot of those lately.

[2010-07-08 19:44:23] Rex Cronon: tcgg

[2010-07-08 19:44:50] Maggie Darwin: Latif: Long belated. Will they publish their own?

[2010-07-08 19:44:56] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, they shown both registered crashes, and these abnormal terminations

[2010-07-08 19:45:22] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: most viewers have about 8% confirmed crashes, adn about 15% of abnormal terminations

[2010-07-08 19:45:48] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: (well Radegast had 0% confirmed crashes :P) but that's because it doesn't send crash data ;)

[2010-07-08 19:45:53] Niaht Nakamichi: did they give OS percentages too?

[2010-07-08 19:46:04] CodeWarrior Carling: 8 % of what?

[2010-07-08 19:46:09] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: yes, it was amazingly even across OSes

[2010-07-08 19:46:13] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: CW, sessiosn

[2010-07-08 19:46:17] Maggie Darwin: Latif:Will they publish numbers for the vanilla LL viewers?

[2010-07-08 19:46:23] Niaht Nakamichi: wow.. well, that's good

[2010-07-08 19:46:24] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: 8% of logins end up in confirmed crash

[2010-07-08 19:46:27] CodeWarrior Carling: kuje,, 8 times out of 100 sessions it ends in a crash?

[2010-07-08 19:46:43] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie, they did show crash rates for their own too yes

[2010-07-08 19:46:49] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: was at about thee same level

[2010-07-08 19:46:55] Maggie Darwin: 8 times out of 100 it crashes so bad that even the server knows.

[2010-07-08 19:47:05] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: yup

[2010-07-08 19:47:14] Maggie Darwin: The same server that has trouble noticing that you're walking sometimes.

[2010-07-08 19:47:51] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: and 15-20% of the time the login server gets login request before it got logout (indicating the previous session ended up abnormally)

[2010-07-08 19:48:24] Damen Hax: shown by the almost 5min delay before everything knows youre offline

[2010-07-08 19:48:28] Maggie Darwin: That's 20% of teh 8%?

[2010-07-08 19:49:24] Maggie Darwin: Rather than play 20 questions, the log of this will be posted?

[2010-07-08 19:50:23] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: 15-20% of all login sessions maggie

[2010-07-08 19:50:34] Maggie Darwin: Wow.

[2010-07-08 19:50:45] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: (so about half of that are confirmed crashes, and the other half something else)

[2010-07-08 19:50:48] Maggie Darwin: I knew it was bad. But that bad?

[2010-07-08 19:50:56] Maggie Darwin: Stunning.

[2010-07-08 19:51:01] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: the meeting was in voice, so no transcript :(

[2010-07-08 19:51:13] Maggie Darwin: I see. How convenient. :-)

[2010-07-08 19:51:29] Maggie Darwin: Well, the numbers will be publshed, so...

[2010-07-08 19:51:38] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: but they did say it was catastrophic

[2010-07-08 19:51:44] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: and its a good thing to have the data

[2010-07-08 19:52:03] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: as far as i could tell they wanted to start a competition among tpv devs

[2010-07-08 19:52:06] Maggie Darwin: and they have known this for YEARS. And it was sekret.

[2010-07-08 19:52:09] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: who can bring the crash rate down

[2010-07-08 19:52:22] CodeWarrior Carling: I think most of us in here think that's a high crash rate because we all have good puters and graphics cards that can handle it and we kind of forget that most people have middle of the road clunkers

[2010-07-08 19:52:29] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: well Oz does manage to get through a bit

[2010-07-08 19:52:38] Maggie Darwin: WHo can bring the crah rate down? LL, that's who. Gawdawmighty,

[2010-07-08 19:52:49] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: CW, you are so wrong

[2010-07-08 19:53:00] CodeWarrior Carling: I know with a pretty high certainty that when I've had crash probvlems.. it was directly related to the temperature of my CPU

[2010-07-08 19:53:01] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: not even half way crap :P

[2010-07-08 19:53:16] Maggie Darwin: "We have a problem we can't solve. How about it, open sourcerers?"

[2010-07-08 19:53:20] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: 60% of all login sessions is on "class 0" harfware, basically intel integrated

[2010-07-08 19:53:36] CodeWarrior Carling: ouch.. integrated memory bottleneck

[2010-07-08 19:53:56] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: everybody was stunned that most people use SL with marginal hardware

[2010-07-08 19:54:14] Maggie Darwin: With all the ARC ranting?

[2010-07-08 19:54:21] Hermit Barber: Code: I would say that I maybe see more crashes than that - maybe because I usually run 1024 draw distance and have thousands of prims of costume - but that is on an i7 with 12Gb of RAM and dual GTX 295 SLI under Linux 32 bit PAE

[2010-07-08 19:54:21] Maggie Darwin: Why would you be surprised?

[2010-07-08 19:54:42] Maggie Darwin: What percentage of accounts are NPIOF?

[2010-07-08 19:54:54] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: no clue

[2010-07-08 20:02:19] hibit Spad: ah TP roulette

[2010-07-08 20:02:43] Maggie Darwin: Kath Berry is tweeting with me about it too

[2010-07-08 20:03:33] Moon Metty: ok

[2010-07-08 20:04:36] Maggie Darwin: Hey, Moon's out.

[2010-07-08 20:04:46] Moon Metty: lol

[2010-07-08 20:05:26] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: hehe

[2010-07-08 20:05:47] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: well the sun is up (in denmark)

[2010-07-08 20:06:05] Hermit Barber: Just like that amazing crash... One result of logging back in was receiving TPs that had been sent hours ago.

[2010-07-08 20:06:09] Moon Metty: the birds are singing in amsterdam

[2010-07-08 20:06:27] Hermit Barber: Time for the European groupies to go to bed?

[2010-07-08 20:06:38] Moon Metty: awwww

[2010-07-08 20:08:06] Robin Roar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzO1mCAVyMw

[2010-07-08 20:08:12] Maggie Darwin: The famous 4:30 birds

[2010-07-08 20:08:30] Maggie Darwin: remeber them form my student days when I stayed up late a lot.

[2010-07-08 20:09:01] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: Maggie needs to make two twitter accounts lol

[2010-07-08 20:09:20] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: MaggieL politics and MaggieL tech :P

[2010-07-08 20:11:04] Damen Hax hears a morepork in the distance

[2010-07-08 20:11:12] Maggie Darwin: And then what about tech politics?

[2010-07-08 20:11:18] Maggie Darwin: http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Entertainment/2010/ad_datacomp...

[2010-07-08 20:12:39] Relay Rinq: (irc:#awg) lkalif: well i find your tech related tweets interesting, not interested in "obama this, obama that" retweets ;)

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